Any reason to use this over the “bundle gem” command so many of us adopted over the last decade? On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 11:56 AM Austin Ziegler via ruby-talk < ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote:

It doesn't look like seattlerb/hoe has been updated. There’s no 4.0.0 tag and no details on the upgrade path in the History.md.

On Thu, Dec 15, 2022 at 2:37 PM Ryan Davis <ryand-ruby@zenspider.com> wrote:

...

hoe version 4.0.0 has been released!

* home: <http://www.zenspider.com/projects/hoe.html> * code: <https://github.com/seattlerb/hoe> * bugs: <https://github.com/seattlerb/hoe/issues> * rdoc: <http://docs.seattlerb.org/hoe/> * doco: <http://docs.seattlerb.org/hoe/Hoe.pdf> * clog: <https://github.com/seattlerb/hoe/blob/master/History.rdoc> * other: <http://github.com/jbarnette/hoe-plugin-examples>

Hoe is a rake/rubygems helper for project Rakefiles. It helps you manage, maintain, and release your project and includes a dynamic plug-in system allowing for easy extensibility. Hoe ships with plug-ins for all your usual project tasks including rdoc generation, testing, packaging, deployment, and announcement.

See class rdoc for help. Hint: `ri Hoe` or any of the plugins listed below.

For extra goodness, see: http://docs.seattlerb.org/hoe/Hoe.pdf

Changes:

### 3.26.0 / 2022-10-20

* 2 minor enhancements:

* Added warning to bundled minitest/test_task. * Removed dead rcov plugin and added (simple)cov plugin.

* 1 bug fix:

* Fixed test task load path issue, prepend Hoe.include_dirs to ensure they come first. ______________________________________________ ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org ruby-talk info -- https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org...

-- Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue ______________________________________________ ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org ruby-talk info -- https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org...

Hoe is shitty because it comes from a terrible place https://www.zenspider.com/ruby/2006/10/unattended-hoes.html On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 6:13 PM Austin Ziegler <halostatue@gmail.com> wrote:

Absolutely: `bundle gem` doesn’t really do anything for you.

We're prolly both biased towards working systems but this is a grossly misinformed statement. "bundle gem" "gem push"

`hoe`, with a few judicious plugins, makes the release process easy. It was created by Ryan because he has a prodigious number of gems.

All of the gems that I am the primary maintainer for use Hoe, and have since it was first released.

- https://github.com/KineticCafe/app_identity/tree/main/ruby - https://github.com/mime-types/ruby-mime-types - https://github.com/mime-types/mime-types-data - https://github.com/halostatue/diff-lcs

I'm certain that I've used something you've touched in my ruby usage, but

this is keeping it alive for keeping it alive. Sure, there’s nothing that I *couldn’t* do with this, but when I get ready

for release, after updating the version, I basically do:

```sh $ bundle exec rake git:manifest gemspec $ git commit -am "Update manifest and gemspec" $ bundle exec rake release VERSION=2.3 # or whatever the version number is ```

It can, as the first post in this thread shows, even email your announcement to ruby-core, but I have disabled that in most of my gems (the value has dropped). If Twitter were likely to be an ongoing concern, then it might be possible to automate such posts *there*, too, with a hoe plugin.

You can write your gemspec manually, but why would you?

You obviously don't use anything modern. This is solved with bundle gem.

You could depend on the Gemfile, but why would you?

Far better to just do the right thing by default and use hoe.

The "right" thing is to reflect on what's best and it's not hoe

-a

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 5:47 PM Corey Donohoe <atmos@atmos.org> wrote:

...

Any reason to use this over the “bundle gem” command so many of us adopted over the last decade?

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 11:56 AM Austin Ziegler via ruby-talk < ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote:

...

It doesn't look like seattlerb/hoe has been updated. There’s no 4.0.0 tag and no details on the upgrade path in the History.md.

On Thu, Dec 15, 2022 at 2:37 PM Ryan Davis <ryand-ruby@zenspider.com> wrote:

...

hoe version 4.0.0 has been released!

* home: <http://www.zenspider.com/projects/hoe.html> * code: <https://github.com/seattlerb/hoe> * bugs: <https://github.com/seattlerb/hoe/issues> * rdoc: <http://docs.seattlerb.org/hoe/> * doco: <http://docs.seattlerb.org/hoe/Hoe.pdf> * clog: <https://github.com/seattlerb/hoe/blob/master/History.rdoc> * other: <http://github.com/jbarnette/hoe-plugin-examples>

Hoe is a rake/rubygems helper for project Rakefiles. It helps you manage, maintain, and release your project and includes a dynamic plug-in system allowing for easy extensibility. Hoe ships with plug-ins for all your usual project tasks including rdoc generation, testing, packaging, deployment, and announcement.

See class rdoc for help. Hint: `ri Hoe` or any of the plugins listed below.

For extra goodness, see: http://docs.seattlerb.org/hoe/Hoe.pdf

Changes:

### 3.26.0 / 2022-10-20

* 2 minor enhancements:

* Added warning to bundled minitest/test_task. * Removed dead rcov plugin and added (simple)cov plugin.

* 1 bug fix:

* Fixed test task load path issue, prepend Hoe.include_dirs to ensure they come first. ______________________________________________ ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org ruby-talk info -- https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org...

-- Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue ______________________________________________ ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org ruby-talk info -- https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org...

-- Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue

I’d encourage you to stop promoting practices worse than what Hoe does. If I replace Hoe in my projects, it will be with a derivation of Hoe that I maintain, not with garbage generated by `bundle gem` or other tools that I have tried (I’ve tried to use `gemsmith`, and find it…utterly unusable). On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 8:34 PM Corey Donohoe <atmos@atmos.org> wrote:

I'd encourage you to try what the rest of the ruby community is running vs hyping up old friends projects.

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 7:18 PM Corey Donohoe <atmos@atmos.org> wrote:

...

Hoe is shitty because it comes from a terrible place https://www.zenspider.com/ruby/2006/10/unattended-hoes.html

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 6:13 PM Austin Ziegler <halostatue@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Absolutely: `bundle gem` doesn’t really do anything for you.

We're prolly both biased towards working systems but this is a grossly misinformed statement. "bundle gem" "gem push"

...

`hoe`, with a few judicious plugins, makes the release process easy. It was created by Ryan because he has a prodigious number of gems.

All of the gems that I am the primary maintainer for use Hoe, and have since it was first released.

- https://github.com/KineticCafe/app_identity/tree/main/ruby - https://github.com/mime-types/ruby-mime-types - https://github.com/mime-types/mime-types-data - https://github.com/halostatue/diff-lcs

I'm certain that I've used something you've touched in my ruby usage,

but this is keeping it alive for keeping it alive.

Sure, there’s nothing that I *couldn’t* do with this, but when I get

...

ready for release, after updating the version, I basically do:

```sh $ bundle exec rake git:manifest gemspec $ git commit -am "Update manifest and gemspec" $ bundle exec rake release VERSION=2.3 # or whatever the version number is ```

It can, as the first post in this thread shows, even email your announcement to ruby-core, but I have disabled that in most of my gems (the value has dropped). If Twitter were likely to be an ongoing concern, then it might be possible to automate such posts *there*, too, with a hoe plugin.

You can write your gemspec manually, but why would you?

You obviously don't use anything modern. This is solved with bundle gem.

...

You could depend on the Gemfile, but why would you?

Far better to just do the right thing by default and use hoe.

The "right" thing is to reflect on what's best and it's not hoe

...

-a

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 5:47 PM Corey Donohoe <atmos@atmos.org> wrote:

...

Any reason to use this over the “bundle gem” command so many of us adopted over the last decade?

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 11:56 AM Austin Ziegler via ruby-talk < ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote:

...

It doesn't look like seattlerb/hoe has been updated. There’s no 4.0.0 tag and no details on the upgrade path in the History.md.

On Thu, Dec 15, 2022 at 2:37 PM Ryan Davis <ryand-ruby@zenspider.com> wrote:

...

hoe version 4.0.0 has been released!

* home: <http://www.zenspider.com/projects/hoe.html> * code: <https://github.com/seattlerb/hoe> * bugs: <https://github.com/seattlerb/hoe/issues> * rdoc: <http://docs.seattlerb.org/hoe/> * doco: <http://docs.seattlerb.org/hoe/Hoe.pdf> * clog: <https://github.com/seattlerb/hoe/blob/master/History.rdoc> * other: <http://github.com/jbarnette/hoe-plugin-examples>

Hoe is a rake/rubygems helper for project Rakefiles. It helps you manage, maintain, and release your project and includes a dynamic plug-in system allowing for easy extensibility. Hoe ships with plug-ins for all your usual project tasks including rdoc generation, testing, packaging, deployment, and announcement.

See class rdoc for help. Hint: `ri Hoe` or any of the plugins listed below.

For extra goodness, see: http://docs.seattlerb.org/hoe/Hoe.pdf

Changes:

### 3.26.0 / 2022-10-20

* 2 minor enhancements:

* Added warning to bundled minitest/test_task. * Removed dead rcov plugin and added (simple)cov plugin.

* 1 bug fix:

* Fixed test task load path issue, prepend Hoe.include_dirs to ensure they come first. ______________________________________________ ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org ruby-talk info -- https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org...

-- Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue ______________________________________________ ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org ruby-talk info -- https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org...

-- Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue

-- Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue

Every woman reading this has fled and left for Typescript so, ultimately, it's kinna sad, watching it all burn down... :-( On Fri, Dec 16, 2022, 18:47 Corey Donohoe via ruby-talk < ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote:

Apologies for the antagonism, enjoy maintaining gems w/ a condescending term EXECUTABLE.

;)

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 8:40 PM Austin Ziegler <halostatue@gmail.com> wrote:

...

I’d encourage you to stop promoting practices worse than what Hoe does.

If I replace Hoe in my projects, it will be with a derivation of Hoe that I maintain, not with garbage generated by `bundle gem` or other tools that I have tried (I’ve tried to use `gemsmith`, and find it…utterly unusable).

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 8:34 PM Corey Donohoe <atmos@atmos.org> wrote:

...

I'd encourage you to try what the rest of the ruby community is running vs hyping up old friends projects.

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 7:18 PM Corey Donohoe <atmos@atmos.org> wrote:

...

Hoe is shitty because it comes from a terrible place https://www.zenspider.com/ruby/2006/10/unattended-hoes.html

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 6:13 PM Austin Ziegler <halostatue@gmail.com> wrote:

...

Absolutely: `bundle gem` doesn’t really do anything for you.

We're prolly both biased towards working systems but this is a grossly misinformed statement. "bundle gem" "gem push"

...

`hoe`, with a few judicious plugins, makes the release process easy. It was created by Ryan because he has a prodigious number of gems.

All of the gems that I am the primary maintainer for use Hoe, and have since it was first released.

- https://github.com/KineticCafe/app_identity/tree/main/ruby - https://github.com/mime-types/ruby-mime-types - https://github.com/mime-types/mime-types-data - https://github.com/halostatue/diff-lcs

I'm certain that I've used something you've touched in my ruby usage,

but this is keeping it alive for keeping it alive.

Sure, there’s nothing that I *couldn’t* do with this, but when I get

...

ready for release, after updating the version, I basically do:

```sh $ bundle exec rake git:manifest gemspec $ git commit -am "Update manifest and gemspec" $ bundle exec rake release VERSION=2.3 # or whatever the version number is ```

It can, as the first post in this thread shows, even email your announcement to ruby-core, but I have disabled that in most of my gems (the value has dropped). If Twitter were likely to be an ongoing concern, then it might be possible to automate such posts *there*, too, with a hoe plugin.

You can write your gemspec manually, but why would you?

You obviously don't use anything modern. This is solved with bundle gem.

...

You could depend on the Gemfile, but why would you?

Far better to just do the right thing by default and use hoe.

The "right" thing is to reflect on what's best and it's not hoe

...

-a

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 5:47 PM Corey Donohoe <atmos@atmos.org> wrote:

...

Any reason to use this over the “bundle gem” command so many of us adopted over the last decade?

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 11:56 AM Austin Ziegler via ruby-talk < ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote:

> It doesn't look like seattlerb/hoe has been updated. There’s no > 4.0.0 tag and no details on the upgrade path in the History.md. > > On Thu, Dec 15, 2022 at 2:37 PM Ryan Davis <ryand-ruby@zenspider.com> > wrote: > >> hoe version 4.0.0 has been released! >> >> * home: <http://www.zenspider.com/projects/hoe.html> >> * code: <https://github.com/seattlerb/hoe> >> * bugs: <https://github.com/seattlerb/hoe/issues> >> * rdoc: <http://docs.seattlerb.org/hoe/> >> * doco: <http://docs.seattlerb.org/hoe/Hoe.pdf> >> * clog: <https://github.com/seattlerb/hoe/blob/master/History.rdoc> >> * other: <http://github.com/jbarnette/hoe-plugin-examples> >> >> Hoe is a rake/rubygems helper for project Rakefiles. It helps you >> manage, maintain, and release your project and includes a dynamic >> plug-in system allowing for easy extensibility. Hoe ships with >> plug-ins for all your usual project tasks including rdoc generation, >> testing, packaging, deployment, and announcement. >> >> See class rdoc for help. Hint: `ri Hoe` or any of the plugins listed >> below. >> >> For extra goodness, see: http://docs.seattlerb.org/hoe/Hoe.pdf >> >> Changes: >> >> ### 3.26.0 / 2022-10-20 >> >> * 2 minor enhancements: >> >> * Added warning to bundled minitest/test_task. >> * Removed dead rcov plugin and added (simple)cov plugin. >> >> * 1 bug fix: >> >> * Fixed test task load path issue, prepend Hoe.include_dirs to >> ensure they come first. >> ______________________________________________ >> ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org >> ruby-talk info -- >> https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org... >> > > > -- > Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca > http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue > ______________________________________________ > ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org > To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org > ruby-talk info -- > https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org...

-- Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue

-- Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue

______________________________________________ ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org ruby-talk info -- https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org...

I'm sorry. On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 8:58 PM Veez Remsik via ruby-talk < ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote:

I was feeling cantankerous and this thread is making me doubly so. Yes, there’s a double entendre there, but it’s up to you to make it. Hoes work similarly to rakes.

Can we not just have a release announcement without a fight?! Fucks sake.

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 7:54 PM ara.t.howard via ruby-talk < ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote:

...

Every woman reading this has fled and left for Typescript so, ultimately, it's kinna sad, watching it all burn down... :-(

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022, 18:47 Corey Donohoe via ruby-talk < ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote:

...

Apologies for the antagonism, enjoy maintaining gems w/ a condescending term EXECUTABLE.

;)

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 8:40 PM Austin Ziegler <halostatue@gmail.com> wrote:

...

I’d encourage you to stop promoting practices worse than what Hoe does.

If I replace Hoe in my projects, it will be with a derivation of Hoe that I maintain, not with garbage generated by `bundle gem` or other tools that I have tried (I’ve tried to use `gemsmith`, and find it…utterly unusable).

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 8:34 PM Corey Donohoe <atmos@atmos.org> wrote:

...

I'd encourage you to try what the rest of the ruby community is running vs hyping up old friends projects.

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 7:18 PM Corey Donohoe <atmos@atmos.org> wrote:

...

Hoe is shitty because it comes from a terrible place https://www.zenspider.com/ruby/2006/10/unattended-hoes.html

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 6:13 PM Austin Ziegler <halostatue@gmail.com> wrote:

> Absolutely: `bundle gem` doesn’t really do anything for you. >

We're prolly both biased towards working systems but this is a grossly misinformed statement. "bundle gem" "gem push"

> > `hoe`, with a few judicious plugins, makes the release process easy. > It was created by Ryan because he has a prodigious number of gems. > > All of the gems that I am the primary maintainer for use Hoe, and > have since it was first released. > > - https://github.com/KineticCafe/app_identity/tree/main/ruby > - https://github.com/mime-types/ruby-mime-types > - https://github.com/mime-types/mime-types-data > - https://github.com/halostatue/diff-lcs > > I'm certain that I've used something you've touched in my ruby usage, but this is keeping it alive for keeping it alive.

Sure, there’s nothing that I *couldn’t* do with this, but when I get > ready for release, after updating the version, I basically do: > > ```sh > $ bundle exec rake git:manifest gemspec > $ git commit -am "Update manifest and gemspec" > $ bundle exec rake release VERSION=2.3 # or whatever the version > number is > ``` > > It can, as the first post in this thread shows, even email your > announcement to ruby-core, but I have disabled that in most of my gems (the > value has dropped). If Twitter were likely to be an ongoing concern, then > it might be possible to automate such posts *there*, too, with a hoe plugin. > > You can write your gemspec manually, but why would you? >

You obviously don't use anything modern. This is solved with bundle gem.

> > You could depend on the Gemfile, but why would you? > > Far better to just do the right thing by default and use hoe. >

The "right" thing is to reflect on what's best and it's not hoe

> > -a > > On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 5:47 PM Corey Donohoe <atmos@atmos.org> > wrote: > >> Any reason to use this over the “bundle gem” command so many of us >> adopted over the last decade? >> >> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 11:56 AM Austin Ziegler via ruby-talk < >> ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote: >> >>> It doesn't look like seattlerb/hoe has been updated. There’s no >>> 4.0.0 tag and no details on the upgrade path in the History.md. >>> >>> On Thu, Dec 15, 2022 at 2:37 PM Ryan Davis < >>> ryand-ruby@zenspider.com> wrote: >>> >>>> hoe version 4.0.0 has been released! >>>> >>>> * home: <http://www.zenspider.com/projects/hoe.html> >>>> * code: <https://github.com/seattlerb/hoe> >>>> * bugs: <https://github.com/seattlerb/hoe/issues> >>>> * rdoc: <http://docs.seattlerb.org/hoe/> >>>> * doco: <http://docs.seattlerb.org/hoe/Hoe.pdf> >>>> * clog: < >>>> https://github.com/seattlerb/hoe/blob/master/History.rdoc> >>>> * other: <http://github.com/jbarnette/hoe-plugin-examples> >>>> >>>> Hoe is a rake/rubygems helper for project Rakefiles. It helps you >>>> manage, maintain, and release your project and includes a dynamic >>>> plug-in system allowing for easy extensibility. Hoe ships with >>>> plug-ins for all your usual project tasks including rdoc >>>> generation, >>>> testing, packaging, deployment, and announcement. >>>> >>>> See class rdoc for help. Hint: `ri Hoe` or any of the plugins >>>> listed >>>> below. >>>> >>>> For extra goodness, see: http://docs.seattlerb.org/hoe/Hoe.pdf >>>> >>>> Changes: >>>> >>>> ### 3.26.0 / 2022-10-20 >>>> >>>> * 2 minor enhancements: >>>> >>>> * Added warning to bundled minitest/test_task. >>>> * Removed dead rcov plugin and added (simple)cov plugin. >>>> >>>> * 1 bug fix: >>>> >>>> * Fixed test task load path issue, prepend Hoe.include_dirs to >>>> ensure they come first. >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org >>>> ruby-talk info -- >>>> https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org... >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca >>> http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue >>> ______________________________________________ >>> ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org >>> To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org >>> ruby-talk info -- >>> https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org... >> >> > > -- > Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca > http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue >

-- Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue

______________________________________________ ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org ruby-talk info -- https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org...

______________________________________________ ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org ruby-talk info -- https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org...

______________________________________________ ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org ruby-talk info -- https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org...

Austin, My point was that hoe and the way it was presented is antiquated and terrible for a decent community of programmers. I know ryan. I met you but you prolly won't remember me. Just change the fucking name and be less of a dick. On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 9:04 PM Austin Ziegler via ruby-talk < ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote:

I just reported a minor bug, then Corey decided to misread the name of the project, shit all over it, read a blog post entirely out of context — probably because he doesn’t like Ryan.

I’m sorry that he’s so bitter.

-a

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 8:58 PM Veez Remsik via ruby-talk < ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote:

...

I was feeling cantankerous and this thread is making me doubly so. Yes, there’s a double entendre there, but it’s up to you to make it. Hoes work similarly to rakes.

Can we not just have a release announcement without a fight?! Fucks sake.

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 7:54 PM ara.t.howard via ruby-talk < ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote:

...

Every woman reading this has fled and left for Typescript so, ultimately, it's kinna sad, watching it all burn down... :-(

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022, 18:47 Corey Donohoe via ruby-talk < ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote:

...

Apologies for the antagonism, enjoy maintaining gems w/ a condescending term EXECUTABLE.

;)

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 8:40 PM Austin Ziegler <halostatue@gmail.com> wrote:

...

I’d encourage you to stop promoting practices worse than what Hoe does.

If I replace Hoe in my projects, it will be with a derivation of Hoe that I maintain, not with garbage generated by `bundle gem` or other tools that I have tried (I’ve tried to use `gemsmith`, and find it…utterly unusable).

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 8:34 PM Corey Donohoe <atmos@atmos.org> wrote:

...

I'd encourage you to try what the rest of the ruby community is running vs hyping up old friends projects.

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 7:18 PM Corey Donohoe <atmos@atmos.org> wrote:

> Hoe is shitty because it comes from a terrible place > https://www.zenspider.com/ruby/2006/10/unattended-hoes.html > > On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 6:13 PM Austin Ziegler <halostatue@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Absolutely: `bundle gem` doesn’t really do anything for you. >> > > We're prolly both biased towards working systems but this is a > grossly misinformed statement. "bundle gem" "gem push" > > >> >> `hoe`, with a few judicious plugins, makes the release process >> easy. It was created by Ryan because he has a prodigious number of gems. >> >> All of the gems that I am the primary maintainer for use Hoe, and >> have since it was first released. >> >> - https://github.com/KineticCafe/app_identity/tree/main/ruby >> - https://github.com/mime-types/ruby-mime-types >> - https://github.com/mime-types/mime-types-data >> - https://github.com/halostatue/diff-lcs >> >> I'm certain that I've used something you've touched in my ruby > usage, but this is keeping it alive for keeping it alive. > > Sure, there’s nothing that I *couldn’t* do with this, but when I get >> ready for release, after updating the version, I basically do: >> >> ```sh >> $ bundle exec rake git:manifest gemspec >> $ git commit -am "Update manifest and gemspec" >> $ bundle exec rake release VERSION=2.3 # or whatever the version >> number is >> ``` >> >> It can, as the first post in this thread shows, even email your >> announcement to ruby-core, but I have disabled that in most of my gems (the >> value has dropped). If Twitter were likely to be an ongoing concern, then >> it might be possible to automate such posts *there*, too, with a hoe plugin. >> >> You can write your gemspec manually, but why would you? >> > > You obviously don't use anything modern. This is solved with bundle > gem. > > >> >> You could depend on the Gemfile, but why would you? >> >> Far better to just do the right thing by default and use hoe. >> > > The "right" thing is to reflect on what's best and it's not hoe > > >> >> -a >> >> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 5:47 PM Corey Donohoe <atmos@atmos.org> >> wrote: >> >>> Any reason to use this over the “bundle gem” command so many of us >>> adopted over the last decade? >>> >>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 11:56 AM Austin Ziegler via ruby-talk < >>> ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote: >>> >>>> It doesn't look like seattlerb/hoe has been updated. There’s no >>>> 4.0.0 tag and no details on the upgrade path in the History.md. >>>> >>>> On Thu, Dec 15, 2022 at 2:37 PM Ryan Davis < >>>> ryand-ruby@zenspider.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> hoe version 4.0.0 has been released! >>>>> >>>>> * home: <http://www.zenspider.com/projects/hoe.html> >>>>> * code: <https://github.com/seattlerb/hoe> >>>>> * bugs: <https://github.com/seattlerb/hoe/issues> >>>>> * rdoc: <http://docs.seattlerb.org/hoe/> >>>>> * doco: <http://docs.seattlerb.org/hoe/Hoe.pdf> >>>>> * clog: < >>>>> https://github.com/seattlerb/hoe/blob/master/History.rdoc> >>>>> * other: <http://github.com/jbarnette/hoe-plugin-examples> >>>>> >>>>> Hoe is a rake/rubygems helper for project Rakefiles. It helps you >>>>> manage, maintain, and release your project and includes a dynamic >>>>> plug-in system allowing for easy extensibility. Hoe ships with >>>>> plug-ins for all your usual project tasks including rdoc >>>>> generation, >>>>> testing, packaging, deployment, and announcement. >>>>> >>>>> See class rdoc for help. Hint: `ri Hoe` or any of the plugins >>>>> listed >>>>> below. >>>>> >>>>> For extra goodness, see: http://docs.seattlerb.org/hoe/Hoe.pdf >>>>> >>>>> Changes: >>>>> >>>>> ### 3.26.0 / 2022-10-20 >>>>> >>>>> * 2 minor enhancements: >>>>> >>>>> * Added warning to bundled minitest/test_task. >>>>> * Removed dead rcov plugin and added (simple)cov plugin. >>>>> >>>>> * 1 bug fix: >>>>> >>>>> * Fixed test task load path issue, prepend Hoe.include_dirs to >>>>> ensure they come first. >>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>> ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org >>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>>> ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org >>>>> ruby-talk info -- >>>>> https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org... >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca >>>> http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org >>>> ruby-talk info -- >>>> https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org... >>> >>> >> >> -- >> Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca >> http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue >> >

-- Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue

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-- Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue ______________________________________________ ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org ruby-talk info -- https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org...

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 9:38 PM Austin Ziegler <halostatue@gmail.com> wrote:

I don’t see any reason to have the name changed, because hoes are often used with rakes. As far as I know, Ruby tool is not named after the derogatory term, and when a tool like this is *built on top of* Rake, it is entirely appropriate to call it another gardening tool.

https://www.zenspider.com/ruby/2006/10/unattended-hoes.html I don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

Or are you annoyed at rake because rake2 is also a derogatory term?

No one uses rake anymore except for class methods in sidekiq

I won’t speak toward Ryan’s behaviour in the community as I have mostly been out of the in-person community for most of the last ten years.

Not gonna touch this one either.

-a

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 9:08 PM Corey Donohoe <atmos@atmos.org> wrote:

...

Austin,

My point was that hoe and the way it was presented is antiquated and terrible for a decent community of programmers.

I know ryan. I met you but you prolly won't remember me. Just change the fucking name and be less of a dick.

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 9:04 PM Austin Ziegler via ruby-talk < ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote:

...

I just reported a minor bug, then Corey decided to misread the name of the project, shit all over it, read a blog post entirely out of context — probably because he doesn’t like Ryan.

I’m sorry that he’s so bitter.

-a

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 8:58 PM Veez Remsik via ruby-talk < ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote:

...

I was feeling cantankerous and this thread is making me doubly so. Yes, there’s a double entendre there, but it’s up to you to make it. Hoes work similarly to rakes.

Can we not just have a release announcement without a fight?! Fucks sake.

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 7:54 PM ara.t.howard via ruby-talk < ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote:

...

Every woman reading this has fled and left for Typescript so, ultimately, it's kinna sad, watching it all burn down... :-(

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022, 18:47 Corey Donohoe via ruby-talk < ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote:

...

Apologies for the antagonism, enjoy maintaining gems w/ a condescending term EXECUTABLE.

;)

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 8:40 PM Austin Ziegler <halostatue@gmail.com> wrote:

> I’d encourage you to stop promoting practices worse than what Hoe > does. > > If I replace Hoe in my projects, it will be with a derivation of Hoe > that I maintain, not with garbage generated by `bundle gem` or other tools > that I have tried (I’ve tried to use `gemsmith`, and find it…utterly > unusable). > > On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 8:34 PM Corey Donohoe <atmos@atmos.org> > wrote: > >> I'd encourage you to try what the rest of the ruby community is >> running vs hyping up old friends projects. >> >> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 7:18 PM Corey Donohoe <atmos@atmos.org> >> wrote: >> >>> Hoe is shitty because it comes from a terrible place >>> https://www.zenspider.com/ruby/2006/10/unattended-hoes.html >>> >>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 6:13 PM Austin Ziegler < >>> halostatue@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Absolutely: `bundle gem` doesn’t really do anything for you. >>>> >>> >>> We're prolly both biased towards working systems but this is a >>> grossly misinformed statement. "bundle gem" "gem push" >>> >>> >>>> >>>> `hoe`, with a few judicious plugins, makes the release process >>>> easy. It was created by Ryan because he has a prodigious number of gems. >>>> >>>> All of the gems that I am the primary maintainer for use Hoe, and >>>> have since it was first released. >>>> >>>> - https://github.com/KineticCafe/app_identity/tree/main/ruby >>>> - https://github.com/mime-types/ruby-mime-types >>>> - https://github.com/mime-types/mime-types-data >>>> - https://github.com/halostatue/diff-lcs >>>> >>>> I'm certain that I've used something you've touched in my ruby >>> usage, but this is keeping it alive for keeping it alive. >>> >>> Sure, there’s nothing that I *couldn’t* do with this, but when I >>>> get ready for release, after updating the version, I basically do: >>>> >>>> ```sh >>>> $ bundle exec rake git:manifest gemspec >>>> $ git commit -am "Update manifest and gemspec" >>>> $ bundle exec rake release VERSION=2.3 # or whatever the version >>>> number is >>>> ``` >>>> >>>> It can, as the first post in this thread shows, even email your >>>> announcement to ruby-core, but I have disabled that in most of my gems (the >>>> value has dropped). If Twitter were likely to be an ongoing concern, then >>>> it might be possible to automate such posts *there*, too, with a hoe plugin. >>>> >>>> You can write your gemspec manually, but why would you? >>>> >>> >>> You obviously don't use anything modern. This is solved with >>> bundle gem. >>> >>> >>>> >>>> You could depend on the Gemfile, but why would you? >>>> >>>> Far better to just do the right thing by default and use hoe. >>>> >>> >>> The "right" thing is to reflect on what's best and it's not hoe >>> >>> >>>> >>>> -a >>>> >>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 5:47 PM Corey Donohoe <atmos@atmos.org> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Any reason to use this over the “bundle gem” command so many of >>>>> us adopted over the last decade? >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 11:56 AM Austin Ziegler via ruby-talk < >>>>> ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> It doesn't look like seattlerb/hoe has been updated. There’s no >>>>>> 4.0.0 tag and no details on the upgrade path in the History.md. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Thu, Dec 15, 2022 at 2:37 PM Ryan Davis < >>>>>> ryand-ruby@zenspider.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> hoe version 4.0.0 has been released! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> * home: <http://www.zenspider.com/projects/hoe.html> >>>>>>> * code: <https://github.com/seattlerb/hoe> >>>>>>> * bugs: <https://github.com/seattlerb/hoe/issues> >>>>>>> * rdoc: <http://docs.seattlerb.org/hoe/> >>>>>>> * doco: <http://docs.seattlerb.org/hoe/Hoe.pdf> >>>>>>> * clog: < >>>>>>> https://github.com/seattlerb/hoe/blob/master/History.rdoc> >>>>>>> * other: <http://github.com/jbarnette/hoe-plugin-examples> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hoe is a rake/rubygems helper for project Rakefiles. It helps >>>>>>> you >>>>>>> manage, maintain, and release your project and includes a >>>>>>> dynamic >>>>>>> plug-in system allowing for easy extensibility. Hoe ships with >>>>>>> plug-ins for all your usual project tasks including rdoc >>>>>>> generation, >>>>>>> testing, packaging, deployment, and announcement. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> See class rdoc for help. Hint: `ri Hoe` or any of the plugins >>>>>>> listed >>>>>>> below. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> For extra goodness, see: http://docs.seattlerb.org/hoe/Hoe.pdf >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Changes: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ### 3.26.0 / 2022-10-20 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> * 2 minor enhancements: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> * Added warning to bundled minitest/test_task. >>>>>>> * Removed dead rcov plugin and added (simple)cov plugin. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> * 1 bug fix: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> * Fixed test task load path issue, prepend Hoe.include_dirs >>>>>>> to ensure they come first. >>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>> ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org >>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>>>>> ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org >>>>>>> ruby-talk info -- >>>>>>> https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org... >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca >>>>>> http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue >>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>> ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org >>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>>>> ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org >>>>>> ruby-talk info -- >>>>>> https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org... >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca >>>> http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue >>>> >>> > > -- > Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca > http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue > ______________________________________________ ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org ruby-talk info -- https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org...

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-- Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue ______________________________________________ ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org ruby-talk info -- https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org...

-- Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue

unsubscribe On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 11:10 PM Austin Ziegler <halostatue@gmail.com> wrote:

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 10:42 PM Corey Donohoe <atmos@atmos.org> wrote:

...

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 9:38 PM Austin Ziegler <halostatue@gmail.com> wrote:

...

I don’t see any reason to have the name changed, because hoes are often used with rakes. As far as I know, Ruby tool is not named after the derogatory term, and when a tool like this is *built on top of* Rake, it is entirely appropriate to call it another gardening tool.

https://www.zenspider.com/ruby/2006/10/unattended-hoes.html

I don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

Obviously, since you didn’t even bother to click *into* the photo, which is a Flickr photo from *someone else entirely* at a gas station for a sticker that *yet a third unknown person* placed on the gas pump. Someone made the sticker (not Ryan). Someone took the picture because it was quirky, amused them, was put in an odd place *whatever* (also not Ryan). Ryan found the photo and, *after* having posted his introductory post ( https://www.zenspider.com/ruby/2006/09/farmer-ted-uses-hoe-to-beat-rake-and-...) about Hoe (the tool, in case you still can’t figure it out) and its relationship to Rake (because it is not a tool meant to be used on its own, but *in conjunction with Rake*), posted it as a found artifact and made a bit of commentary that someone is *completely* losing their shit over sixteen years later because they apparently don’t know about the dictionary definition of hoe (hoe1, to be specific) and think that all gardeners and farmers who use these tools, in addition to anyone who happens to find the Ruby tool that Ryan created *useful and better than most alternatives*, are complete retrograde assholes.

And you say that *I* need to get a grip?

Seriously, dude. Take the night off from the Internet and perhaps read some gardening books so you’re at least *somewhat* informed.

...

...

Or are you annoyed at rake because rake2 is also a derogatory term?

No one uses rake anymore except for class methods in sidekiq

…you do realize that your beloved `bundle gem` *creates a Rakefile*, as does `rails new` and pretty much every gem out there in existence has a Rakefile and more or less everyone in the Ruby world uses Rake?

Probably not.

...

...

I won’t speak toward Ryan’s behaviour in the community as I have mostly been out of the in-person community for most of the last ten years.

Not gonna touch this one either.

Already did. I’ve been relatively polite and argued in good faith through this whole diatribe of yours, which is based on nothing but your inability to understand English and an apparent dislike for Ryan Davis and anything he creates.

Hoe is a good tool, and it is not (as far as I know) based on the meaning you gleaned from your *complete* misreading of a post, its context, and apparently you haven’t been able to figure that out for sixteen years.

I’m sorry that’s the case for you.

Yes, in the mid-late 2000s there was a lot of shitty bro behaviour that had no business being in tech (and there’s still way too much), but what I know of Ryan, he’s not one of those shitty bros who made Ruby conferences unpleasant places to be, or had those off-colour jokes as project names. If hoe were representative of that sort of behaviour, don’t you think that there would be more examples of it? Instead of looking at the *actual* history and the naming parity with Rake, you make accusations in bad faith.

-a

...

...

-a

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 9:08 PM Corey Donohoe <atmos@atmos.org> wrote:

...

Austin,

My point was that hoe and the way it was presented is antiquated and terrible for a decent community of programmers.

I know ryan. I met you but you prolly won't remember me. Just change the fucking name and be less of a dick.

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 9:04 PM Austin Ziegler via ruby-talk < ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote:

...

I just reported a minor bug, then Corey decided to misread the name of the project, shit all over it, read a blog post entirely out of context — probably because he doesn’t like Ryan.

I’m sorry that he’s so bitter.

-a

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 8:58 PM Veez Remsik via ruby-talk < ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote:

...

I was feeling cantankerous and this thread is making me doubly so. Yes, there’s a double entendre there, but it’s up to you to make it. Hoes work similarly to rakes.

Can we not just have a release announcement without a fight?! Fucks sake.

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 7:54 PM ara.t.howard via ruby-talk < ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote:

> Every woman reading this has fled and left for Typescript so, > ultimately, it's kinna sad, watching it all burn down... :-( > > > > > On Fri, Dec 16, 2022, 18:47 Corey Donohoe via ruby-talk < > ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote: > >> Apologies for the antagonism, enjoy maintaining gems w/ a >> condescending term EXECUTABLE. >> >> ;) >> >> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 8:40 PM Austin Ziegler < >> halostatue@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> I’d encourage you to stop promoting practices worse than what Hoe >>> does. >>> >>> If I replace Hoe in my projects, it will be with a derivation of >>> Hoe that I maintain, not with garbage generated by `bundle gem` or other >>> tools that I have tried (I’ve tried to use `gemsmith`, and find it…utterly >>> unusable). >>> >>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 8:34 PM Corey Donohoe <atmos@atmos.org> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I'd encourage you to try what the rest of the ruby community is >>>> running vs hyping up old friends projects. >>>> >>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 7:18 PM Corey Donohoe <atmos@atmos.org> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hoe is shitty because it comes from a terrible place >>>>> https://www.zenspider.com/ruby/2006/10/unattended-hoes.html >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 6:13 PM Austin Ziegler < >>>>> halostatue@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Absolutely: `bundle gem` doesn’t really do anything for you. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> We're prolly both biased towards working systems but this is a >>>>> grossly misinformed statement. "bundle gem" "gem push" >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> `hoe`, with a few judicious plugins, makes the release process >>>>>> easy. It was created by Ryan because he has a prodigious number of gems. >>>>>> >>>>>> All of the gems that I am the primary maintainer for use Hoe, >>>>>> and have since it was first released. >>>>>> >>>>>> - https://github.com/KineticCafe/app_identity/tree/main/ruby >>>>>> - https://github.com/mime-types/ruby-mime-types >>>>>> - https://github.com/mime-types/mime-types-data >>>>>> - https://github.com/halostatue/diff-lcs >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm certain that I've used something you've touched in my ruby >>>>> usage, but this is keeping it alive for keeping it alive. >>>>> >>>>> Sure, there’s nothing that I *couldn’t* do with this, but when I >>>>>> get ready for release, after updating the version, I basically do: >>>>>> >>>>>> ```sh >>>>>> $ bundle exec rake git:manifest gemspec >>>>>> $ git commit -am "Update manifest and gemspec" >>>>>> $ bundle exec rake release VERSION=2.3 # or whatever the >>>>>> version number is >>>>>> ``` >>>>>> >>>>>> It can, as the first post in this thread shows, even email your >>>>>> announcement to ruby-core, but I have disabled that in most of my gems (the >>>>>> value has dropped). If Twitter were likely to be an ongoing concern, then >>>>>> it might be possible to automate such posts *there*, too, with a hoe plugin. >>>>>> >>>>>> You can write your gemspec manually, but why would you? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> You obviously don't use anything modern. This is solved with >>>>> bundle gem. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> You could depend on the Gemfile, but why would you? >>>>>> >>>>>> Far better to just do the right thing by default and use hoe. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The "right" thing is to reflect on what's best and it's not hoe >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -a >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 5:47 PM Corey Donohoe <atmos@atmos.org> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Any reason to use this over the “bundle gem” command so many >>>>>>> of us adopted over the last decade? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 11:56 AM Austin Ziegler via ruby-talk < >>>>>>> ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It doesn't look like seattlerb/hoe has been updated. There’s >>>>>>>> no 4.0.0 tag and no details on the upgrade path in the History.md. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 15, 2022 at 2:37 PM Ryan Davis < >>>>>>>> ryand-ruby@zenspider.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> hoe version 4.0.0 has been released! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> * home: <http://www.zenspider.com/projects/hoe.html> >>>>>>>>> * code: <https://github.com/seattlerb/hoe> >>>>>>>>> * bugs: <https://github.com/seattlerb/hoe/issues> >>>>>>>>> * rdoc: <http://docs.seattlerb.org/hoe/> >>>>>>>>> * doco: <http://docs.seattlerb.org/hoe/Hoe.pdf> >>>>>>>>> * clog: < >>>>>>>>> https://github.com/seattlerb/hoe/blob/master/History.rdoc> >>>>>>>>> * other: <http://github.com/jbarnette/hoe-plugin-examples> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hoe is a rake/rubygems helper for project Rakefiles. It >>>>>>>>> helps you >>>>>>>>> manage, maintain, and release your project and includes a >>>>>>>>> dynamic >>>>>>>>> plug-in system allowing for easy extensibility. Hoe ships >>>>>>>>> with >>>>>>>>> plug-ins for all your usual project tasks including rdoc >>>>>>>>> generation, >>>>>>>>> testing, packaging, deployment, and announcement. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> See class rdoc for help. Hint: `ri Hoe` or any of the >>>>>>>>> plugins listed >>>>>>>>> below. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> For extra goodness, see: >>>>>>>>> http://docs.seattlerb.org/hoe/Hoe.pdf >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Changes: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ### 3.26.0 / 2022-10-20 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> * 2 minor enhancements: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> * Added warning to bundled minitest/test_task. >>>>>>>>> * Removed dead rcov plugin and added (simple)cov plugin. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> * 1 bug fix: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> * Fixed test task load path issue, prepend >>>>>>>>> Hoe.include_dirs to ensure they come first. >>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>>>>>>> ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org >>>>>>>>> ruby-talk info -- >>>>>>>>> https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca >>>>>>>> http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue >>>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>>>>>> ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org >>>>>>>> ruby-talk info -- >>>>>>>> https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca >>>>>> http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue >>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca >>> http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue >>> >> ______________________________________________ >> ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org >> ruby-talk info -- >> https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org... > > ______________________________________________ > ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org > To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org > ruby-talk info -- > https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org...

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-- Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue ______________________________________________ ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org ruby-talk info -- https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org...

-- Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue

-- Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue

Didn’t Matz used to say something like “Ruby is nice, so Rubyists are nice.” —— Rick DeNatale

On Dec 17, 2022, at 11:04 AM, Wolf via ruby-talk <ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote:

On 2022-12-16 22:42:08 -0500, Corey Donohoe via ruby-talk wrote:

...

...

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 9:38 PM Austin Ziegler <halostatue@gmail.com> wrote:

I don’t see any reason to have the name changed, because hoes are often used with rakes. As far as I know, Ruby tool is not named after the derogatory term, and when a tool like this is *built on top of* Rake, it is entirely appropriate to call it another gardening tool.

https://www.zenspider.com/ruby/2006/10/unattended-hoes.html

I don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

...

Or are you annoyed at rake because rake2 is also a derogatory term?

No one uses rake anymore except for class methods in sidekiq

I must be somewhat out of touch then. What is the current flavor of the month tool I should replace rake with?

...

...

I won’t speak toward Ryan’s behaviour in the community as I have mostly been out of the in-person community for most of the last ten years.

Not gonna touch this one either.

...

-a

...

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 9:08 PM Corey Donohoe <atmos@atmos.org> wrote:

...

Austin,

My point was that hoe and the way it was presented is antiquated and terrible for a decent community of programmers.

I know ryan. I met you but you prolly won't remember me. Just change the fucking name and be less of a dick.

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 9:04 PM Austin Ziegler via ruby-talk < ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote:

...

I just reported a minor bug, then Corey decided to misread the name of the project, shit all over it, read a blog post entirely out of context — probably because he doesn’t like Ryan.

I’m sorry that he’s so bitter.

-a

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 8:58 PM Veez Remsik via ruby-talk < ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote:

...

I was feeling cantankerous and this thread is making me doubly so. Yes, there’s a double entendre there, but it’s up to you to make it. Hoes work similarly to rakes.

Can we not just have a release announcement without a fight?! Fucks sake.

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 7:54 PM ara.t.howard via ruby-talk < ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote:

> Every woman reading this has fled and left for Typescript so, > ultimately, it's kinna sad, watching it all burn down... :-( > > > > > On Fri, Dec 16, 2022, 18:47 Corey Donohoe via ruby-talk < > ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote: > >> Apologies for the antagonism, enjoy maintaining gems w/ a >> condescending term EXECUTABLE. >> >> ;) >> >> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 8:40 PM Austin Ziegler <halostatue@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> I’d encourage you to stop promoting practices worse than what Hoe >>> does. >>> >>> If I replace Hoe in my projects, it will be with a derivation of Hoe >>> that I maintain, not with garbage generated by `bundle gem` or other tools >>> that I have tried (I’ve tried to use `gemsmith`, and find it…utterly >>> unusable). >>> >>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 8:34 PM Corey Donohoe <atmos@atmos.org> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I'd encourage you to try what the rest of the ruby community is >>>> running vs hyping up old friends projects. >>>> >>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 7:18 PM Corey Donohoe <atmos@atmos.org> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Hoe is shitty because it comes from a terrible place >>>>> https://www.zenspider.com/ruby/2006/10/unattended-hoes.html >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 6:13 PM Austin Ziegler < >>>>> halostatue@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Absolutely: `bundle gem` doesn’t really do anything for you. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> We're prolly both biased towards working systems but this is a >>>>> grossly misinformed statement. "bundle gem" "gem push" >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> `hoe`, with a few judicious plugins, makes the release process >>>>>> easy. It was created by Ryan because he has a prodigious number of gems. >>>>>> >>>>>> All of the gems that I am the primary maintainer for use Hoe, and >>>>>> have since it was first released. >>>>>> >>>>>> - https://github.com/KineticCafe/app_identity/tree/main/ruby >>>>>> - https://github.com/mime-types/ruby-mime-types >>>>>> - https://github.com/mime-types/mime-types-data >>>>>> - https://github.com/halostatue/diff-lcs >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm certain that I've used something you've touched in my ruby >>>>> usage, but this is keeping it alive for keeping it alive. >>>>> >>>>> Sure, there’s nothing that I *couldn’t* do with this, but when I >>>>>> get ready for release, after updating the version, I basically do: >>>>>> >>>>>> ```sh >>>>>> $ bundle exec rake git:manifest gemspec >>>>>> $ git commit -am "Update manifest and gemspec" >>>>>> $ bundle exec rake release VERSION=2.3 # or whatever the version >>>>>> number is >>>>>> ``` >>>>>> >>>>>> It can, as the first post in this thread shows, even email your >>>>>> announcement to ruby-core, but I have disabled that in most of my gems (the >>>>>> value has dropped). If Twitter were likely to be an ongoing concern, then >>>>>> it might be possible to automate such posts *there*, too, with a hoe plugin. >>>>>> >>>>>> You can write your gemspec manually, but why would you? >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> You obviously don't use anything modern. This is solved with >>>>> bundle gem. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> You could depend on the Gemfile, but why would you? >>>>>> >>>>>> Far better to just do the right thing by default and use hoe. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The "right" thing is to reflect on what's best and it's not hoe >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -a >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 5:47 PM Corey Donohoe <atmos@atmos.org> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Any reason to use this over the “bundle gem” command so many of >>>>>>> us adopted over the last decade? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 11:56 AM Austin Ziegler via ruby-talk < >>>>>>> ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It doesn't look like seattlerb/hoe has been updated. There’s no >>>>>>>> 4.0.0 tag and no details on the upgrade path in the History.md. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 15, 2022 at 2:37 PM Ryan Davis < >>>>>>>> ryand-ruby@zenspider.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> hoe version 4.0.0 has been released! >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> * home: <http://www.zenspider.com/projects/hoe.html> >>>>>>>>> * code: <https://github.com/seattlerb/hoe> >>>>>>>>> * bugs: <https://github.com/seattlerb/hoe/issues> >>>>>>>>> * rdoc: <http://docs.seattlerb.org/hoe/> >>>>>>>>> * doco: <http://docs.seattlerb.org/hoe/Hoe.pdf> >>>>>>>>> * clog: < >>>>>>>>> https://github.com/seattlerb/hoe/blob/master/History.rdoc> >>>>>>>>> * other: <http://github.com/jbarnette/hoe-plugin-examples> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hoe is a rake/rubygems helper for project Rakefiles. It helps >>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>> manage, maintain, and release your project and includes a >>>>>>>>> dynamic >>>>>>>>> plug-in system allowing for easy extensibility. Hoe ships with >>>>>>>>> plug-ins for all your usual project tasks including rdoc >>>>>>>>> generation, >>>>>>>>> testing, packaging, deployment, and announcement. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> See class rdoc for help. Hint: `ri Hoe` or any of the plugins >>>>>>>>> listed >>>>>>>>> below. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> For extra goodness, see: http://docs.seattlerb.org/hoe/Hoe.pdf >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Changes: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ### 3.26.0 / 2022-10-20 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> * 2 minor enhancements: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> * Added warning to bundled minitest/test_task. >>>>>>>>> * Removed dead rcov plugin and added (simple)cov plugin. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> * 1 bug fix: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> * Fixed test task load path issue, prepend Hoe.include_dirs >>>>>>>>> to ensure they come first. >>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>>>>>>> ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org >>>>>>>>> ruby-talk info -- >>>>>>>>> https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca >>>>>>>> http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue >>>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>>>>>> ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org >>>>>>>> ruby-talk info -- >>>>>>>> https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca >>>>>> http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue >>>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> -- >>> Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca >>> http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue >>> >> ______________________________________________ >> ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org >> ruby-talk info -- >> https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org... > > ______________________________________________ > ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org > To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org > ruby-talk info -- > https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org...

______________________________________________ ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org ruby-talk info -- https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org...

-- Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue ______________________________________________ ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org ruby-talk info -- https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org...

-- Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue

...

______________________________________________ ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org ruby-talk info -- https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org...

Also, this whole thread is simply amazing. In the bad way.

W.

-- There are only two hard things in Computer Science: cache invalidation, naming things and off-by-one errors. ______________________________________________ ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org ruby-talk info -- https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org...

Matz Is Nice So We Are Nice (MINSWAN) is how a lot of people have tried to live their lives here (and elsewhere). Or as my mom used to say, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all". I also have the opposite (perhaps contrarian) opinion about Rake being dead. I had the privilege to meet the late Jim Weirich several times, and once, to play guitar to his ukulele in a pick-up band at RailsConf. If anyone is in line for canonization for their contributions to the Ruby community, Jim would be very near the beginning of that line. And because I am a sentimental sort, I have gone so far as to restore the Rake shim to all my Rails projects, so I can continue to use `rake [db:migrate or whatever]` in favor of `rails ...` as the working command for most command-line tasks in those projects. I try to respect my elders, particularly when they have been so good to me over the years, and given so generously to the commons. Walter

On Dec 17, 2022, at 1:41 PM, Rick DeNatale via ruby-talk <ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote:

Didn’t Matz used to say something like “Ruby is nice, so Rubyists are nice.”

—— Rick DeNatale

...

On Dec 17, 2022, at 11:04 AM, Wolf via ruby-talk <ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote:

On 2022-12-16 22:42:08 -0500, Corey Donohoe via ruby-talk wrote:

...

...

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 9:38 PM Austin Ziegler <halostatue@gmail.com> wrote:

I don’t see any reason to have the name changed, because hoes are often used with rakes. As far as I know, Ruby tool is not named after the derogatory term, and when a tool like this is *built on top of* Rake, it is entirely appropriate to call it another gardening tool.

https://www.zenspider.com/ruby/2006/10/unattended-hoes.html

I don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

...

Or are you annoyed at rake because rake2 is also a derogatory term?

No one uses rake anymore except for class methods in sidekiq

I must be somewhat out of touch then. What is the current flavor of the month tool I should replace rake with?

...

...

I won’t speak toward Ryan’s behaviour in the community as I have mostly been out of the in-person community for most of the last ten years.

Not gonna touch this one either.

...

-a

...

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 9:08 PM Corey Donohoe <atmos@atmos.org> wrote:

...

Austin,

My point was that hoe and the way it was presented is antiquated and terrible for a decent community of programmers.

I know ryan. I met you but you prolly won't remember me. Just change the fucking name and be less of a dick.

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 9:04 PM Austin Ziegler via ruby-talk < ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote:

...

I just reported a minor bug, then Corey decided to misread the name of the project, shit all over it, read a blog post entirely out of context — probably because he doesn’t like Ryan.

I’m sorry that he’s so bitter.

-a

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 8:58 PM Veez Remsik via ruby-talk < ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote:

> I was feeling cantankerous and this thread is making me doubly so. Yes, > there’s a double entendre there, but it’s up to you to make it. Hoes work > similarly to rakes. > > Can we not just have a release announcement without a fight?! Fucks > sake. > > On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 7:54 PM ara.t.howard via ruby-talk < > ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote: > >> Every woman reading this has fled and left for Typescript so, >> ultimately, it's kinna sad, watching it all burn down... :-( >> >> >> >> >> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022, 18:47 Corey Donohoe via ruby-talk < >> ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote: >> >>> Apologies for the antagonism, enjoy maintaining gems w/ a >>> condescending term EXECUTABLE. >>> >>> ;) >>> >>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 8:40 PM Austin Ziegler <halostatue@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I’d encourage you to stop promoting practices worse than what Hoe >>>> does. >>>> >>>> If I replace Hoe in my projects, it will be with a derivation of Hoe >>>> that I maintain, not with garbage generated by `bundle gem` or other tools >>>> that I have tried (I’ve tried to use `gemsmith`, and find it…utterly >>>> unusable). >>>> >>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 8:34 PM Corey Donohoe <atmos@atmos.org> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I'd encourage you to try what the rest of the ruby community is >>>>> running vs hyping up old friends projects. >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 7:18 PM Corey Donohoe <atmos@atmos.org> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Hoe is shitty because it comes from a terrible place >>>>>> https://www.zenspider.com/ruby/2006/10/unattended-hoes.html >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 6:13 PM Austin Ziegler < >>>>>> halostatue@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Absolutely: `bundle gem` doesn’t really do anything for you. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> We're prolly both biased towards working systems but this is a >>>>>> grossly misinformed statement. "bundle gem" "gem push" >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> `hoe`, with a few judicious plugins, makes the release process >>>>>>> easy. It was created by Ryan because he has a prodigious number of gems. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> All of the gems that I am the primary maintainer for use Hoe, and >>>>>>> have since it was first released. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - https://github.com/KineticCafe/app_identity/tree/main/ruby >>>>>>> - https://github.com/mime-types/ruby-mime-types >>>>>>> - https://github.com/mime-types/mime-types-data >>>>>>> - https://github.com/halostatue/diff-lcs >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm certain that I've used something you've touched in my ruby >>>>>> usage, but this is keeping it alive for keeping it alive. >>>>>> >>>>>> Sure, there’s nothing that I *couldn’t* do with this, but when I >>>>>>> get ready for release, after updating the version, I basically do: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ```sh >>>>>>> $ bundle exec rake git:manifest gemspec >>>>>>> $ git commit -am "Update manifest and gemspec" >>>>>>> $ bundle exec rake release VERSION=2.3 # or whatever the version >>>>>>> number is >>>>>>> ``` >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It can, as the first post in this thread shows, even email your >>>>>>> announcement to ruby-core, but I have disabled that in most of my gems (the >>>>>>> value has dropped). If Twitter were likely to be an ongoing concern, then >>>>>>> it might be possible to automate such posts *there*, too, with a hoe plugin. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You can write your gemspec manually, but why would you? >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> You obviously don't use anything modern. This is solved with >>>>>> bundle gem. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You could depend on the Gemfile, but why would you? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Far better to just do the right thing by default and use hoe. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> The "right" thing is to reflect on what's best and it's not hoe >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -a >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 5:47 PM Corey Donohoe <atmos@atmos.org> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Any reason to use this over the “bundle gem” command so many of >>>>>>>> us adopted over the last decade? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 11:56 AM Austin Ziegler via ruby-talk < >>>>>>>> ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It doesn't look like seattlerb/hoe has been updated. There’s no >>>>>>>>> 4.0.0 tag and no details on the upgrade path in the History.md. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 15, 2022 at 2:37 PM Ryan Davis < >>>>>>>>> ryand-ruby@zenspider.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> hoe version 4.0.0 has been released! >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> * home: <http://www.zenspider.com/projects/hoe.html> >>>>>>>>>> * code: <https://github.com/seattlerb/hoe> >>>>>>>>>> * bugs: <https://github.com/seattlerb/hoe/issues> >>>>>>>>>> * rdoc: <http://docs.seattlerb.org/hoe/> >>>>>>>>>> * doco: <http://docs.seattlerb.org/hoe/Hoe.pdf> >>>>>>>>>> * clog: < >>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/seattlerb/hoe/blob/master/History.rdoc> >>>>>>>>>> * other: <http://github.com/jbarnette/hoe-plugin-examples> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hoe is a rake/rubygems helper for project Rakefiles. It helps >>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>> manage, maintain, and release your project and includes a >>>>>>>>>> dynamic >>>>>>>>>> plug-in system allowing for easy extensibility. Hoe ships with >>>>>>>>>> plug-ins for all your usual project tasks including rdoc >>>>>>>>>> generation, >>>>>>>>>> testing, packaging, deployment, and announcement. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> See class rdoc for help. Hint: `ri Hoe` or any of the plugins >>>>>>>>>> listed >>>>>>>>>> below. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> For extra goodness, see: http://docs.seattlerb.org/hoe/Hoe.pdf >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Changes: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ### 3.26.0 / 2022-10-20 >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> * 2 minor enhancements: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> * Added warning to bundled minitest/test_task. >>>>>>>>>> * Removed dead rcov plugin and added (simple)cov plugin. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> * 1 bug fix: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> * Fixed test task load path issue, prepend Hoe.include_dirs >>>>>>>>>> to ensure they come first. >>>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>>>>>>>> ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org >>>>>>>>>> ruby-talk info -- >>>>>>>>>> https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org... >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca >>>>>>>>> http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue >>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>>>>>>> ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org >>>>>>>>> ruby-talk info -- >>>>>>>>> https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca >>>>>>> http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca >>>> http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue >>>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org >>> To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org >>> ruby-talk info -- >>> https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org... >> >> ______________________________________________ >> ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org >> ruby-talk info -- >> https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org... > > ______________________________________________ > ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org > To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org > ruby-talk info -- > https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org...

-- Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue ______________________________________________ ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org ruby-talk info -- https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org...

-- Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue

...

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Also, this whole thread is simply amazing. In the bad way.

W.

-- There are only two hard things in Computer Science: cache invalidation, naming things and off-by-one errors. ______________________________________________ ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org ruby-talk info -- https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org...

---

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I think that Rake is still responsible for db:migrate, I know I have not changed over to using rails for that one. The one that irked me, since I use it daily, was `rake routes`. Add this file as lib/tasks/routes.rake ```rb # frozen_string_literal: true require "rails/command" desc "Print out all defined routes in match order, with names." task routes: :environment do Rails::Command.invoke "routes" end ``` And it is instructive to note that Rails still uses Rake internally for a lot of what is in the `rails` command line: https://github.com/rails/rails/blob/main/railties/lib/rails/tasks.rb Each one of those rake commands are aliased into the rails command whole-cloth. Rake is an incredibly powerful low-level tool, and its design and evolution is an important study document for any serious Rubyist. One of the guiding Rails-core design decisions around tasks moving into the rails command (and out of the rake command) is to try to reduce the overall command line branching size. "Do I call this with Rake or Rails?" Since so much of Rails development is sheer memorization of an enormous API, this is a noble pursuit of simplification. Another is the desire to make everything have unit tests, and since Rake tasks effectively run in the same object space as IRB sessions, they are notoriously resistant to that kind of deterministic testing. You can expect more tasks to become less dependent on Rake as a result over time. But meanwhile, those of us for whom `rake routes` is such a muscle-memory thing to type can still leverage the incredible flexibility and simplicity of Rake by effectively turning the Rails API inside out, as above. Walter

On Dec 17, 2022, at 2:00 PM, Chibuzor via ruby-talk <ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote:

Nice words Walter, I always wondered what happened when I tried to rake db:migrate on one hobby I was making. Did not occur to me to research I just thought the community move on from it.

Uzor.

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On Dec 17, 2022, at 7:57 PM, Walter Lee Davis via ruby-talk <ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote:

Matz Is Nice So We Are Nice (MINSWAN) is how a lot of people have tried to live their lives here (and elsewhere). Or as my mom used to say, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all".

I also have the opposite (perhaps contrarian) opinion about Rake being dead. I had the privilege to meet the late Jim Weirich several times, and once, to play guitar to his ukulele in a pick-up band at RailsConf. If anyone is in line for canonization for their contributions to the Ruby community, Jim would be very near the beginning of that line. And because I am a sentimental sort, I have gone so far as to restore the Rake shim to all my Rails projects, so I can continue to use `rake [db:migrate or whatever]` in favor of `rails ...` as the working command for most command-line tasks in those projects. I try to respect my elders, particularly when they have been so good to me over the years, and given so generously to the commons.

Walter

...

On Dec 17, 2022, at 1:41 PM, Rick DeNatale via ruby-talk <ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote:

Didn’t Matz used to say something like “Ruby is nice, so Rubyists are nice.”

—— Rick DeNatale

...

On Dec 17, 2022, at 11:04 AM, Wolf via ruby-talk <ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote:

On 2022-12-16 22:42:08 -0500, Corey Donohoe via ruby-talk wrote:

...

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On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 9:38 PM Austin Ziegler <halostatue@gmail.com> wrote:

I don’t see any reason to have the name changed, because hoes are often used with rakes. As far as I know, Ruby tool is not named after the derogatory term, and when a tool like this is *built on top of* Rake, it is entirely appropriate to call it another gardening tool.

https://www.zenspider.com/ruby/2006/10/unattended-hoes.html

I don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

...

Or are you annoyed at rake because rake2 is also a derogatory term?

No one uses rake anymore except for class methods in sidekiq

I must be somewhat out of touch then. What is the current flavor of the month tool I should replace rake with?

...

...

I won’t speak toward Ryan’s behaviour in the community as I have mostly been out of the in-person community for most of the last ten years.

Not gonna touch this one either.

...

-a

> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 9:08 PM Corey Donohoe <atmos@atmos.org> wrote:

> Austin, > > My point was that hoe and the way it was presented is antiquated and > terrible for a decent community of programmers. > > I know ryan. I met you but you prolly won't remember me. Just change the > fucking name and be less of a dick. > > On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 9:04 PM Austin Ziegler via ruby-talk < > ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote: > >> I just reported a minor bug, then Corey decided to misread the name of >> the project, shit all over it, read a blog post entirely out of context — >> probably because he doesn’t like Ryan. >> >> I’m sorry that he’s so bitter. >> >> -a >> >> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 8:58 PM Veez Remsik via ruby-talk < >> ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote: >> >>> I was feeling cantankerous and this thread is making me doubly so. Yes, >>> there’s a double entendre there, but it’s up to you to make it. Hoes work >>> similarly to rakes. >>> >>> Can we not just have a release announcement without a fight?! Fucks >>> sake. >>> >>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 7:54 PM ara.t.howard via ruby-talk < >>> ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Every woman reading this has fled and left for Typescript so, >>>> ultimately, it's kinna sad, watching it all burn down... :-( >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022, 18:47 Corey Donohoe via ruby-talk < >>>> ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Apologies for the antagonism, enjoy maintaining gems w/ a >>>>> condescending term EXECUTABLE. >>>>> >>>>> ;) >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 8:40 PM Austin Ziegler <halostatue@gmail.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I’d encourage you to stop promoting practices worse than what Hoe >>>>>> does. >>>>>> >>>>>> If I replace Hoe in my projects, it will be with a derivation of Hoe >>>>>> that I maintain, not with garbage generated by `bundle gem` or other tools >>>>>> that I have tried (I’ve tried to use `gemsmith`, and find it…utterly >>>>>> unusable). >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 8:34 PM Corey Donohoe <atmos@atmos.org> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I'd encourage you to try what the rest of the ruby community is >>>>>>> running vs hyping up old friends projects. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 7:18 PM Corey Donohoe <atmos@atmos.org> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hoe is shitty because it comes from a terrible place >>>>>>>> https://www.zenspider.com/ruby/2006/10/unattended-hoes.html >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 6:13 PM Austin Ziegler < >>>>>>>> halostatue@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Absolutely: `bundle gem` doesn’t really do anything for you. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We're prolly both biased towards working systems but this is a >>>>>>>> grossly misinformed statement. "bundle gem" "gem push" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> `hoe`, with a few judicious plugins, makes the release process >>>>>>>>> easy. It was created by Ryan because he has a prodigious number of gems. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> All of the gems that I am the primary maintainer for use Hoe, and >>>>>>>>> have since it was first released. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - https://github.com/KineticCafe/app_identity/tree/main/ruby >>>>>>>>> - https://github.com/mime-types/ruby-mime-types >>>>>>>>> - https://github.com/mime-types/mime-types-data >>>>>>>>> - https://github.com/halostatue/diff-lcs >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I'm certain that I've used something you've touched in my ruby >>>>>>>> usage, but this is keeping it alive for keeping it alive. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sure, there’s nothing that I *couldn’t* do with this, but when I >>>>>>>>> get ready for release, after updating the version, I basically do: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ```sh >>>>>>>>> $ bundle exec rake git:manifest gemspec >>>>>>>>> $ git commit -am "Update manifest and gemspec" >>>>>>>>> $ bundle exec rake release VERSION=2.3 # or whatever the version >>>>>>>>> number is >>>>>>>>> ``` >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> It can, as the first post in this thread shows, even email your >>>>>>>>> announcement to ruby-core, but I have disabled that in most of my gems (the >>>>>>>>> value has dropped). If Twitter were likely to be an ongoing concern, then >>>>>>>>> it might be possible to automate such posts *there*, too, with a hoe plugin. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You can write your gemspec manually, but why would you? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You obviously don't use anything modern. This is solved with >>>>>>>> bundle gem. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You could depend on the Gemfile, but why would you? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Far better to just do the right thing by default and use hoe. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The "right" thing is to reflect on what's best and it's not hoe >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -a >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 5:47 PM Corey Donohoe <atmos@atmos.org> >>>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Any reason to use this over the “bundle gem” command so many of >>>>>>>>>> us adopted over the last decade? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 11:56 AM Austin Ziegler via ruby-talk < >>>>>>>>>> ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> It doesn't look like seattlerb/hoe has been updated. There’s no >>>>>>>>>>> 4.0.0 tag and no details on the upgrade path in the History.md. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 15, 2022 at 2:37 PM Ryan Davis < >>>>>>>>>>> ryand-ruby@zenspider.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> hoe version 4.0.0 has been released! >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> * home: <http://www.zenspider.com/projects/hoe.html> >>>>>>>>>>>> * code: <https://github.com/seattlerb/hoe> >>>>>>>>>>>> * bugs: <https://github.com/seattlerb/hoe/issues> >>>>>>>>>>>> * rdoc: <http://docs.seattlerb.org/hoe/> >>>>>>>>>>>> * doco: <http://docs.seattlerb.org/hoe/Hoe.pdf> >>>>>>>>>>>> * clog: < >>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/seattlerb/hoe/blob/master/History.rdoc> >>>>>>>>>>>> * other: <http://github.com/jbarnette/hoe-plugin-examples> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Hoe is a rake/rubygems helper for project Rakefiles. It helps >>>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>>> manage, maintain, and release your project and includes a >>>>>>>>>>>> dynamic >>>>>>>>>>>> plug-in system allowing for easy extensibility. Hoe ships with >>>>>>>>>>>> plug-ins for all your usual project tasks including rdoc >>>>>>>>>>>> generation, >>>>>>>>>>>> testing, packaging, deployment, and announcement. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> See class rdoc for help. Hint: `ri Hoe` or any of the plugins >>>>>>>>>>>> listed >>>>>>>>>>>> below. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> For extra goodness, see: http://docs.seattlerb.org/hoe/Hoe.pdf >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Changes: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> ### 3.26.0 / 2022-10-20 >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> * 2 minor enhancements: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> * Added warning to bundled minitest/test_task. >>>>>>>>>>>> * Removed dead rcov plugin and added (simple)cov plugin. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> * 1 bug fix: >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> * Fixed test task load path issue, prepend Hoe.include_dirs >>>>>>>>>>>> to ensure they come first. >>>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>>> ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>>>>>>>>>> ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org >>>>>>>>>>>> ruby-talk info -- >>>>>>>>>>>> https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org... >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue >>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>>>>>>>>> ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org >>>>>>>>>>> ruby-talk info -- >>>>>>>>>>> https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org... >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca >>>>>>>>> http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca >>>>>> http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue >>>>>> >>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>> ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org >>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org >>>>> ruby-talk info -- >>>>> https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org... >>>> >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org >>>> ruby-talk info -- >>>> https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org... >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org >>> To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org >>> ruby-talk info -- >>> https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org... >> >> >> >> -- >> Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca >> http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue >> ______________________________________________ >> ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org >> ruby-talk info -- >> https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org... > >

-- Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue

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Also, this whole thread is simply amazing. In the bad way.

W.

-- There are only two hard things in Computer Science: cache invalidation, naming things and off-by-one errors. ______________________________________________ ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org ruby-talk info -- https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org...

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______________________________________________ ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org ruby-talk info -- https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org...

MINISWAN is right. As is respecting your elders. I had dinner one time with Jim and I’ll always remember it; there are four celebrity moments I’ve had in my career, and Jim is the second. On Sat, Dec 17, 2022 at 12:58 PM Walter Lee Davis via ruby-talk < ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote:

Matz Is Nice So We Are Nice (MINSWAN) is how a lot of people have tried to live their lives here (and elsewhere). Or as my mom used to say, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all".

I also have the opposite (perhaps contrarian) opinion about Rake being dead. I had the privilege to meet the late Jim Weirich several times, and once, to play guitar to his ukulele in a pick-up band at RailsConf. If anyone is in line for canonization for their contributions to the Ruby community, Jim would be very near the beginning of that line. And because I am a sentimental sort, I have gone so far as to restore the Rake shim to all my Rails projects, so I can continue to use `rake [db:migrate or whatever]` in favor of `rails ...` as the working command for most command-line tasks in those projects. I try to respect my elders, particularly when they have been so good to me over the years, and given so generously to the commons.

Walter

...

On Dec 17, 2022, at 1:41 PM, Rick DeNatale via ruby-talk < ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote:

Didn’t Matz used to say something like “Ruby is nice, so Rubyists are nice.”

—— Rick DeNatale

...

On Dec 17, 2022, at 11:04 AM, Wolf via ruby-talk < ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote:

On 2022-12-16 22:42:08 -0500, Corey Donohoe via ruby-talk wrote:

...

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On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 9:38 PM Austin Ziegler <halostatue@gmail.com> wrote:

I don’t see any reason to have the name changed, because hoes are often used with rakes. As far as I know, Ruby tool is not named after the derogatory term, and when a tool like this is *built on top of* Rake, it is entirely appropriate to call it another gardening tool.

https://www.zenspider.com/ruby/2006/10/unattended-hoes.html

I don't know what the fuck you're talking about.

...

Or are you annoyed at rake because rake2 is also a derogatory term?

No one uses rake anymore except for class methods in sidekiq

I must be somewhat out of touch then. What is the current flavor of the month tool I should replace rake with?

...

...

I won’t speak toward Ryan’s behaviour in the community as I have

...

...

been out of the in-person community for most of the last ten years.

Not gonna touch this one either.

...

-a

...

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 9:08 PM Corey Donohoe <atmos@atmos.org>

wrote:

...

...

Austin,

My point was that hoe and the way it was presented is antiquated and terrible for a decent community of programmers.

I know ryan. I met you but you prolly won't remember me. Just change

mostly the

...

...

...

fucking name and be less of a dick.

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 9:04 PM Austin Ziegler via ruby-talk < ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote:

> I just reported a minor bug, then Corey decided to misread the name of > the project, shit all over it, read a blog post entirely out of context — > probably because he doesn’t like Ryan. > > I’m sorry that he’s so bitter. > > -a > > On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 8:58 PM Veez Remsik via ruby-talk < > ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote: > >> I was feeling cantankerous and this thread is making me doubly so. Yes, >> there’s a double entendre there, but it’s up to you to make it. Hoes work >> similarly to rakes. >> >> Can we not just have a release announcement without a fight?! Fucks >> sake. >> >> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 7:54 PM ara.t.howard via ruby-talk < >> ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote: >> >>> Every woman reading this has fled and left for Typescript so, >>> ultimately, it's kinna sad, watching it all burn down... :-( >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022, 18:47 Corey Donohoe via ruby-talk < >>> ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Apologies for the antagonism, enjoy maintaining gems w/ a >>>> condescending term EXECUTABLE. >>>> >>>> ;) >>>> >>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 8:40 PM Austin Ziegler < halostatue@gmail.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I’d encourage you to stop promoting practices worse than what Hoe >>>>> does. >>>>> >>>>> If I replace Hoe in my projects, it will be with a derivation of Hoe >>>>> that I maintain, not with garbage generated by `bundle gem` or other tools >>>>> that I have tried (I’ve tried to use `gemsmith`, and find it…utterly >>>>> unusable). >>>>> >>>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 8:34 PM Corey Donohoe <atmos@atmos.org> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I'd encourage you to try what the rest of the ruby community is >>>>>> running vs hyping up old friends projects. >>>>>> >>>>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 7:18 PM Corey Donohoe <atmos@atmos.org

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>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Hoe is shitty because it comes from a terrible place >>>>>>> https://www.zenspider.com/ruby/2006/10/unattended-hoes.html >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 6:13 PM Austin Ziegler < >>>>>>> halostatue@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Absolutely: `bundle gem` doesn’t really do anything for you. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We're prolly both biased towards working systems but this is a >>>>>>> grossly misinformed statement. "bundle gem" "gem push" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> `hoe`, with a few judicious plugins, makes the release process >>>>>>>> easy. It was created by Ryan because he has a prodigious number of gems. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> All of the gems that I am the primary maintainer for use Hoe, and >>>>>>>> have since it was first released. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - https://github.com/KineticCafe/app_identity/tree/main/ruby >>>>>>>> - https://github.com/mime-types/ruby-mime-types >>>>>>>> - https://github.com/mime-types/mime-types-data >>>>>>>> - https://github.com/halostatue/diff-lcs >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm certain that I've used something you've touched in my ruby >>>>>>> usage, but this is keeping it alive for keeping it alive. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Sure, there’s nothing that I *couldn’t* do with this, but when I >>>>>>>> get ready for release, after updating the version, I basically do: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ```sh >>>>>>>> $ bundle exec rake git:manifest gemspec >>>>>>>> $ git commit -am "Update manifest and gemspec" >>>>>>>> $ bundle exec rake release VERSION=2.3 # or whatever the version >>>>>>>> number is >>>>>>>> ``` >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It can, as the first post in this thread shows, even email your >>>>>>>> announcement to ruby-core, but I have disabled that in most of my gems (the >>>>>>>> value has dropped). If Twitter were likely to be an ongoing concern, then >>>>>>>> it might be possible to automate such posts *there*, too, with a hoe plugin. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You can write your gemspec manually, but why would you? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> You obviously don't use anything modern. This is solved with >>>>>>> bundle gem. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> You could depend on the Gemfile, but why would you? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Far better to just do the right thing by default and use hoe. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The "right" thing is to reflect on what's best and it's not hoe >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -a >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 5:47 PM Corey Donohoe < atmos@atmos.org> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Any reason to use this over the “bundle gem” command so many of >>>>>>>>> us adopted over the last decade? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 11:56 AM Austin Ziegler via ruby-talk < >>>>>>>>> ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> It doesn't look like seattlerb/hoe has been updated. There’s no >>>>>>>>>> 4.0.0 tag and no details on the upgrade path in the History.md. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 15, 2022 at 2:37 PM Ryan Davis < >>>>>>>>>> ryand-ruby@zenspider.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> hoe version 4.0.0 has been released! >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> * home: <http://www.zenspider.com/projects/hoe.html> >>>>>>>>>>> * code: <https://github.com/seattlerb/hoe> >>>>>>>>>>> * bugs: <https://github.com/seattlerb/hoe/issues> >>>>>>>>>>> * rdoc: <http://docs.seattlerb.org/hoe/> >>>>>>>>>>> * doco: <http://docs.seattlerb.org/hoe/Hoe.pdf> >>>>>>>>>>> * clog: < >>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/seattlerb/hoe/blob/master/History.rdoc

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>>>>>>>>>>> * other: <http://github.com/jbarnette/hoe-plugin-examples

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>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hoe is a rake/rubygems helper for project Rakefiles. It helps >>>>>>>>>>> you >>>>>>>>>>> manage, maintain, and release your project and includes a >>>>>>>>>>> dynamic >>>>>>>>>>> plug-in system allowing for easy extensibility. Hoe ships with >>>>>>>>>>> plug-ins for all your usual project tasks including rdoc >>>>>>>>>>> generation, >>>>>>>>>>> testing, packaging, deployment, and announcement. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> See class rdoc for help. Hint: `ri Hoe` or any of the plugins >>>>>>>>>>> listed >>>>>>>>>>> below. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> For extra goodness, see: http://docs.seattlerb.org/hoe/Hoe.pdf >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Changes: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> ### 3.26.0 / 2022-10-20 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> * 2 minor enhancements: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> * Added warning to bundled minitest/test_task. >>>>>>>>>>> * Removed dead rcov plugin and added (simple)cov plugin. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> * 1 bug fix: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> * Fixed test task load path issue, prepend Hoe.include_dirs >>>>>>>>>>> to ensure they come first. >>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>>>>>>>>> ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org >>>>>>>>>>> ruby-talk info -- >>>>>>>>>>> https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org... >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca >>>>>>>>>> http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue >>>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to >>>>>>>>>> ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org >>>>>>>>>> ruby-talk info -- >>>>>>>>>> https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca >>>>>>>> http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca >>>>> http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue >>>>> >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org >>>> To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org >>>> ruby-talk info -- >>>> https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org... >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org >>> To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org >>> ruby-talk info -- >>> https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org... >> >> ______________________________________________ >> ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org >> ruby-talk info -- >> https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org... > > > > -- > Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca > http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue > ______________________________________________ > ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org > To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org > ruby-talk info -- > https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org...

-- Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue

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Also, this whole thread is simply amazing. In the bad way.

W.

-- There are only two hard things in Computer Science: cache invalidation, naming things and off-by-one errors. ______________________________________________ ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org ruby-talk info -- https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org...

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Are you serious? In English, Hoe has two different meanings for nouns (hoe1, the tool; hoe2, the variant of ho, which is both informal and derogatory) and two meanings for verbs (both hoe1). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoe_(tool) The second post to which you’re referring to is making a play on words for a sticker that someone else posted on a gas station pump (if you went to look at the original image). Yes, the person who put the sticker on the pump probably meant it in the way that you’re taking it. Additionally, the "binary" for hoe is sow (more or less the smarter equivalent of `bundle gem`), where sow1 is a verb meaning planting or disseminating. If this is what your opinion on Hoe (the Ruby tool) is based on, then I would suggest that you get a grip and perhaps learn a bit more of the English language. The Hoe gem is named as such because Jim Weirich had already used Rake, and it was meant to be a companion tool. Good luck. -a On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 8:46 PM Corey Donohoe <atmos@atmos.org> wrote:

Apologies for the antagonism, enjoy maintaining gems w/ a condescending term EXECUTABLE.

;)

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 8:40 PM Austin Ziegler <halostatue@gmail.com> wrote:

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I’d encourage you to stop promoting practices worse than what Hoe does.

If I replace Hoe in my projects, it will be with a derivation of Hoe that I maintain, not with garbage generated by `bundle gem` or other tools that I have tried (I’ve tried to use `gemsmith`, and find it…utterly unusable).

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 8:34 PM Corey Donohoe <atmos@atmos.org> wrote:

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I'd encourage you to try what the rest of the ruby community is running vs hyping up old friends projects.

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 7:18 PM Corey Donohoe <atmos@atmos.org> wrote:

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Hoe is shitty because it comes from a terrible place https://www.zenspider.com/ruby/2006/10/unattended-hoes.html

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 6:13 PM Austin Ziegler <halostatue@gmail.com> wrote:

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Absolutely: `bundle gem` doesn’t really do anything for you.

We're prolly both biased towards working systems but this is a grossly misinformed statement. "bundle gem" "gem push"

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`hoe`, with a few judicious plugins, makes the release process easy. It was created by Ryan because he has a prodigious number of gems.

All of the gems that I am the primary maintainer for use Hoe, and have since it was first released.

- https://github.com/KineticCafe/app_identity/tree/main/ruby - https://github.com/mime-types/ruby-mime-types - https://github.com/mime-types/mime-types-data - https://github.com/halostatue/diff-lcs

I'm certain that I've used something you've touched in my ruby usage,

but this is keeping it alive for keeping it alive.

Sure, there’s nothing that I *couldn’t* do with this, but when I get

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ready for release, after updating the version, I basically do:

```sh $ bundle exec rake git:manifest gemspec $ git commit -am "Update manifest and gemspec" $ bundle exec rake release VERSION=2.3 # or whatever the version number is ```

It can, as the first post in this thread shows, even email your announcement to ruby-core, but I have disabled that in most of my gems (the value has dropped). If Twitter were likely to be an ongoing concern, then it might be possible to automate such posts *there*, too, with a hoe plugin.

You can write your gemspec manually, but why would you?

You obviously don't use anything modern. This is solved with bundle gem.

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You could depend on the Gemfile, but why would you?

Far better to just do the right thing by default and use hoe.

The "right" thing is to reflect on what's best and it's not hoe

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-a

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 5:47 PM Corey Donohoe <atmos@atmos.org> wrote:

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Any reason to use this over the “bundle gem” command so many of us adopted over the last decade?

On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 11:56 AM Austin Ziegler via ruby-talk < ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote:

> It doesn't look like seattlerb/hoe has been updated. There’s no > 4.0.0 tag and no details on the upgrade path in the History.md. > > On Thu, Dec 15, 2022 at 2:37 PM Ryan Davis <ryand-ruby@zenspider.com> > wrote: > >> hoe version 4.0.0 has been released! >> >> * home: <http://www.zenspider.com/projects/hoe.html> >> * code: <https://github.com/seattlerb/hoe> >> * bugs: <https://github.com/seattlerb/hoe/issues> >> * rdoc: <http://docs.seattlerb.org/hoe/> >> * doco: <http://docs.seattlerb.org/hoe/Hoe.pdf> >> * clog: <https://github.com/seattlerb/hoe/blob/master/History.rdoc> >> * other: <http://github.com/jbarnette/hoe-plugin-examples> >> >> Hoe is a rake/rubygems helper for project Rakefiles. It helps you >> manage, maintain, and release your project and includes a dynamic >> plug-in system allowing for easy extensibility. Hoe ships with >> plug-ins for all your usual project tasks including rdoc generation, >> testing, packaging, deployment, and announcement. >> >> See class rdoc for help. Hint: `ri Hoe` or any of the plugins listed >> below. >> >> For extra goodness, see: http://docs.seattlerb.org/hoe/Hoe.pdf >> >> Changes: >> >> ### 3.26.0 / 2022-10-20 >> >> * 2 minor enhancements: >> >> * Added warning to bundled minitest/test_task. >> * Removed dead rcov plugin and added (simple)cov plugin. >> >> * 1 bug fix: >> >> * Fixed test task load path issue, prepend Hoe.include_dirs to >> ensure they come first. >> ______________________________________________ >> ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org >> ruby-talk info -- >> https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org... >> > > > -- > Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca > http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue > ______________________________________________ > ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org > To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org > ruby-talk info -- > https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org...

-- Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue

-- Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue

-- Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue

On Dec 16, 2022, at 16:18, Corey Donohoe via ruby-talk <ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote:

Hoe is shitty because it comes from a terrible place https://www.zenspider.com/ruby/2006/10/unattended-hoes.html

Apparently I "missed out" on a lot of drama on the list today. I'm not going to touch pretty much anything that Corey/Atmos said and I hope he actually unsubscribed because frankly we don't need that BS. --- For the record, hoe's name has never been a double entendre. It has ALWAYS been named after a tool akin/related to rake. Since day one, the readme has opened with:

Hoe is a rake/rubygems helper for project Rakefiles.

Every release, every blog post, every email make that beyond clear. Well, apparently not ONE blog post. Oh well. That someone can take a 15 year old blog post THAT far out of context in order to manufacture some pretty misplaced outrage is bewildering to me; to then declare that the *software* is shitty because of said manufactured outrage is, well, kinda sad.