Matz Is Nice So We Are Nice (MINSWAN) is how a lot of people have tried to live their lives here (and elsewhere). Or as my mom used to say, "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all".

I also have the opposite (perhaps contrarian) opinion about Rake being dead. I had the privilege to meet the late Jim Weirich several times, and once, to play guitar to his ukulele in a pick-up band at RailsConf. If anyone is in line for canonization for their contributions to the Ruby community, Jim would be very near the beginning of that line. And because I am a sentimental sort, I have gone so far as to restore the Rake shim to all my Rails projects, so I can continue to use `rake [db:migrate or whatever]` in favor of `rails ...` as the working command for most command-line tasks in those projects. I try to respect my elders, particularly when they have been so good to me over the years, and given so generously to the commons.

Walter

> On Dec 17, 2022, at 1:41 PM, Rick DeNatale via ruby-talk <ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote:
>
> Didn’t Matz used to say something like “Ruby is nice, so Rubyists are nice.”
>
> ——
> Rick DeNatale
>
>> On Dec 17, 2022, at 11:04 AM, Wolf via ruby-talk <ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote:
>>
>> On 2022-12-16 22:42:08 -0500, Corey Donohoe via ruby-talk wrote:
>>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 9:38 PM Austin Ziegler <halostatue@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I don’t see any reason to have the name changed, because hoes are often
>>>> used with rakes. As far as I know, Ruby tool is not named after the
>>>> derogatory term, and when a tool like this is *built on top of* Rake, it is
>>>> entirely appropriate to call it another gardening tool.
>>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.zenspider.com/ruby/2006/10/unattended-hoes.html
>>>
>>> I don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Or are you annoyed at rake because rake2 is also a derogatory term?
>>>>
>>>
>>> No one uses rake anymore except for class methods in sidekiq
>>
>> I must be somewhat out of touch then. What is the current flavor of
>> the month tool I should replace rake with?
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> I won’t speak toward Ryan’s behaviour in the community as I have mostly
>>>> been out of the in-person community for most of the last ten years.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Not gonna touch this one either.
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> -a
>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 9:08 PM Corey Donohoe <atmos@atmos.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Austin,
>>>>>
>>>>> My point was that hoe and the way it was presented is antiquated and
>>>>> terrible for a decent community of programmers.
>>>>>
>>>>> I know ryan. I met you but you prolly won't remember me. Just change the
>>>>> fucking name and be less of a dick.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 9:04 PM Austin Ziegler via ruby-talk <
>>>>> ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I just reported a minor bug, then Corey decided to misread the name of
>>>>>> the project, shit all over it, read a blog post entirely out of context —
>>>>>> probably because he doesn’t like Ryan.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I’m sorry that he’s so bitter.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -a
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 8:58 PM Veez Remsik via ruby-talk <
>>>>>> ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I was feeling cantankerous and this thread is making me doubly so. Yes,
>>>>>>> there’s a double entendre there, but it’s up to you to make it. Hoes work
>>>>>>> similarly to rakes.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Can we not just have a release announcement without a fight?! Fucks
>>>>>>> sake.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 7:54 PM ara.t.howard via ruby-talk <
>>>>>>> ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Every woman reading this has fled and left for Typescript so,
>>>>>>>> ultimately, it's kinna sad, watching it all burn down... :-(
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022, 18:47 Corey Donohoe via ruby-talk <
>>>>>>>> ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Apologies for the antagonism, enjoy maintaining gems w/ a
>>>>>>>>> condescending term EXECUTABLE.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ;)
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 8:40 PM Austin Ziegler <halostatue@gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> I’d encourage you to stop promoting practices worse than what Hoe
>>>>>>>>>> does.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If I replace Hoe in my projects, it will be with a derivation of Hoe
>>>>>>>>>> that I maintain, not with garbage generated by `bundle gem` or other tools
>>>>>>>>>> that I have tried (I’ve tried to use `gemsmith`, and find it…utterly
>>>>>>>>>> unusable).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 8:34 PM Corey Donohoe <atmos@atmos.org>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I'd encourage you to try what the rest of the ruby community is
>>>>>>>>>>> running vs hyping up old friends projects.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 7:18 PM Corey Donohoe <atmos@atmos.org>
>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Hoe is shitty because it comes from a terrible place
>>>>>>>>>>>> https://www.zenspider.com/ruby/2006/10/unattended-hoes.html
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 6:13 PM Austin Ziegler <
>>>>>>>>>>>> halostatue@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Absolutely: `bundle gem` doesn’t really do anything for you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> We're prolly both biased towards working systems but this is a
>>>>>>>>>>>> grossly misinformed statement. "bundle gem" "gem push"
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> `hoe`, with a few judicious plugins, makes the release process
>>>>>>>>>>>>> easy. It was created by Ryan because he has a prodigious number of gems.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> All of the gems that I am the primary maintainer for use Hoe, and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> have since it was first released.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  - https://github.com/KineticCafe/app_identity/tree/main/ruby
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  - https://github.com/mime-types/ruby-mime-types
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  - https://github.com/mime-types/mime-types-data
>>>>>>>>>>>>>  - https://github.com/halostatue/diff-lcs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm certain that I've used something you've touched in my ruby
>>>>>>>>>>>> usage, but this is keeping it alive for keeping it alive.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> Sure, there’s nothing that I *couldn’t* do with this, but when I
>>>>>>>>>>>>> get ready for release, after updating the version, I basically do:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ```sh
>>>>>>>>>>>>> $ bundle exec rake git:manifest gemspec
>>>>>>>>>>>>> $ git commit -am "Update manifest and gemspec"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> $ bundle exec rake release VERSION=2.3 # or whatever the version
>>>>>>>>>>>>> number is
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ```
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> It can, as the first post in this thread shows, even email your
>>>>>>>>>>>>> announcement to ruby-core, but I have disabled that in most of my gems (the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> value has dropped). If Twitter were likely to be an ongoing concern, then
>>>>>>>>>>>>> it might be possible to automate such posts *there*, too, with a hoe plugin.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You can write your gemspec manually, but why would you?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> You obviously don't use anything modern. This is solved with
>>>>>>>>>>>> bundle gem.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> You could depend on the Gemfile, but why would you?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Far better to just do the right thing by default and use hoe.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> The "right" thing is to reflect on what's best and it's not hoe
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 5:47 PM Corey Donohoe <atmos@atmos.org>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any reason to use this over the “bundle gem” command so many of
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> us adopted over the last decade?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Dec 16, 2022 at 11:56 AM Austin Ziegler via ruby-talk <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> It doesn't look like seattlerb/hoe has been updated. There’s no
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 4.0.0 tag and no details on the upgrade path in the History.md.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 15, 2022 at 2:37 PM Ryan Davis <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ryand-ruby@zenspider.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> hoe version 4.0.0 has been released!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * home: <http://www.zenspider.com/projects/hoe.html>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * code: <https://github.com/seattlerb/hoe>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * bugs: <https://github.com/seattlerb/hoe/issues>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * rdoc: <http://docs.seattlerb.org/hoe/>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * doco: <http://docs.seattlerb.org/hoe/Hoe.pdf>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * clog: <
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://github.com/seattlerb/hoe/blob/master/History.rdoc>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * other: <http://github.com/jbarnette/hoe-plugin-examples>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hoe is a rake/rubygems helper for project Rakefiles. It helps
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> manage, maintain, and release your project and includes a
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> dynamic
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plug-in system allowing for easy extensibility. Hoe ships with
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> plug-ins for all your usual project tasks including rdoc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> generation,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> testing, packaging, deployment, and announcement.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> See class rdoc for help. Hint: `ri Hoe` or any of the plugins
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> listed
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> below.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> For extra goodness, see: http://docs.seattlerb.org/hoe/Hoe.pdf
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Changes:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ### 3.26.0 / 2022-10-20
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * 2 minor enhancements:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * Added warning to bundled minitest/test_task.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * Removed dead rcov plugin and added (simple)cov plugin.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * 1 bug fix:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> * Fixed test task load path issue, prepend Hoe.include_dirs
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> to ensure they come first.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ruby-talk info --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ruby-talk info --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org
>>>>>>>>> ruby-talk info --
>>>>>>>>> https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org
>>>>>>>> ruby-talk info --
>>>>>>>> https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>>> ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org
>>>>>>> ruby-talk info --
>>>>>>> https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca
>>>>>> http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue
>>>>>> ______________________________________________
>>>>>> ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org
>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org
>>>>>> ruby-talk info --
>>>>>> https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org/
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Austin Ziegler • halostatue@gmail.com • austin@halostatue.ca
>>>> http://www.halostatue.ca/ • http://twitter.com/halostatue
>>>>
>>
>>> ______________________________________________
>>> ruby-talk mailing list -- ruby-talk@ml.ruby-lang.org
>>> To unsubscribe send an email to ruby-talk-leave@ml.ruby-lang.org
>>> ruby-talk info -- https://ml.ruby-lang.org/mailman3/postorius/lists/ruby-talk.ml.ruby-lang.org/
>>
>> Also, this whole thread is simply amazing. In the bad way.
>>
>> W.
>>
>> --
>> There are only two hard things in Computer Science:
>> cache invalidation, naming things and off-by-one errors.
>> ______________________________________________
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> ______________________________________________
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